5 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

4834 Elkhorn Hill Drive

Suwanee, GA 30024

$3950000
Welcome Home to your Elegant Rustic Style Lodge with unique custom finishes and high quality Craftsmanship throughout the home. A splendid setting where elegance meets nature. This 5BD/6.3 BA home (2 of the BD's are master Suites)has private view of the Greg Norman Golf Course, a pond and mature woods. Backyard features pool w/hot tub,waterfall and Firepit for your everyday enjoyment. 2 Cooks kitchens, 6 FP's,Spa area on terrace level w/Sauna,Steam shower,massage room, work out room & Aerobic room.3 Laundry rooms, Elevator, Wide plank hand scraped walnut floors.

Summary

MLS #5650314
Price3950000
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage10185
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

7 Bed / 7 Bath Home in THE RIVER CLUB

4745 Cuyahoga Cove

Suwanee, GA 30024

$3790000
ONE OF THE MOST IMPRESSIVE FRENCH PROVINCIAL ESTATES TO REACH MARKET IN N. ATLANTA, BOASTING UNPRECEDENTED DETAIL & ARCHITECTURAL CUSTOM CRAFTSMANSHIP.... SITTING ON A LEVEL CUL-DE-SAC LOT YET PERCHED TALL ABOVE THE GREG NORMAL GOLF COURSE, WITH PANORAMIC VIEWS AND 380 FT OF LAKE FRONTAGE, THIS HOME TOOK ALMOST $1 MILLION IN HAND-CUT TENNESSEE STONEWORK ALONE. ENJOY WIDE-PLANK HEART OF PINE FLOORING, LARGE AND ENTERTAINING OPEN FLOOR PLAN. ABSOLUTELY STUNNING GOURMET CHEF'S KITCHEN WITH DOUBLE SUB ZEROS- AND VIRTUALLY EVERY CONCEIVABLE OPTION. 4 FIREPLACES. 5-CAR

Summary

MLS #5718436
Price3790000
Bedrooms7
Bathrooms (Full)7
Square Footage11738
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

4695 Whitestone Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$2599000
Custom Home in The River Club. 6 Bedroom 6.5 Ba on double lot backing golf course. 1st floor features large 2 story foyer overlooking LR with handsome study and large entertaining DR. Gourmet kitchen overlooks oversized Family Room and covered porch. Master on main and 2nd bedroom on main. Upstairs features 3 bedrooms all with private baths and large dressing area. Terrace level features bedroom and bath, Bar area, game room and theatre.

Summary

MLS #5751567
Price2599000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage8412
Square Footage SourceAppraisal
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

4605 Whitestone Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$2500000
Exquisite estate home with the finest attention to detail throughout. Overlooking 4th green, home features marble inlayed foyer, Liv Rm, Office w/FP, opulent Great Rm w/FP, state of the art Kitchen, Stunning Keeping Rm w/beamed ceiling & FP, Romantic Master on main, elevator, World class terrace Lvl w/Rec Rm w/FP, Bar, Billiards Rm w/FP, Humidor, Home Theater(all equipment stays!), 2nd master suite & most beautiful finish work in the River Club. Pool & spa w/stone surround, stunning outdoor living areas. WOW!

Summary

MLS #5722910
Price2500000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage9476
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

869 Big Horn Hollow

Suwanee, GA 30024

$2450000
Welcome home...you've earned this! Enter an innovative floor plan built for entertaining & family enjoyment. Delight in vaulted wood beamed ceilings throughout, wood, brick & travertine floors, wide baseboards, stained doors throughout. The chef of the family will revel in the showcase kitchen of granite and brick. Master on main, separate his & hers baths/closets with car wash shower for both to enjoy. Terrace level is filled with customized features including media room with built in show cases for memorabilia, bar, wine cellar, game room, cozy rec room with fireplace

Summary

MLS #5713023
Price2450000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage9663
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

912 Little Darby Lane

Suwanee, GA 30024

$2099000
Old world European inspired master piece, indescribable detail thruout,in private setting, 2 story grand foyer w/spiral staircase, pecky cypress paneled study, gourmet kitchen views to fireside keep rm ,Private master suite on main level w/spa like master bath, his/hers closets w/custom built-ins, whole house audio system ,cover porch w/outdoor fireplace/Terrace level features: Pub style bar,w/1800 bottle wine cellar, theater seats 8 features concession stand, billiard rm,card rm,spa rm w/sauna, salt water pool & spa w/cascading waterfalls & outdoor fire pit.

Summary

MLS #5693604
Price2099000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage9755
Square Footage SourceBuilder
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

962 Little Darby Lane

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1849999
Exquisite details with superb finishing mark this amazing River Club home! Formal DR w pecky cypress walls, rustic aged exposed beams, handkerchief ceiling in foyer w built in bookcases. Kitchen built for 2 chefs w island feat all Viking appl & custom inlay cabinetry. Owners suite on main. Barn door leads to pool bath, mud rm w laundry & hammered copper sink. Junior master w spa bath. Finished terrace level& outdoor living at its finest. Complete w private 1 Bdrm Guest House w kitchenette & screened porch overlooking saltwater pool w spa.

Summary

MLS #5645985
Price1849999
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage7603
Square Footage SourceBuilder
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

878 Crescent River Pass

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1799999
Stunning Brick & Stone Manor home w good golf course views. Outdoor living rooms on multi levels w fireplace overlooking pool & waterfall spa. Chefs kitchen w mixed woods. Working island w veggie sink, warming drawer, Wolf gas coooktop, dual dishwashers, subzero and wine chiller. Main floor boasts study w fireplace, living room w fireplace & stone walls, formal dining room, & owners suite on main. 3 generous ensuite bedrooms upstairs. Terrace level finished w media, billiards area, custom bar, wine, office, & guest bedroom w full bath.

Summary

MLS #5758623
Price1799999
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage7316
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

5212 Boulder Bluff Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1789900
A cul-de-sac lot, this 6 bed home offers an abundance of outdoor living spaces,spa pool & fire pit backing up to natural woods. Foyer flanked w/a large DR & study.The kitchen has it all: island w/serving bar,walk-in pantry & counter space for the home chef.The vaulted kitchen-family room is accented w/ truss beams. Main floor master has spacious his/her walk in closets. A finished terrace w/ theater, family/billiards & game rooms,full kitchen, weight room, guest suite & BA completes this home.

Summary

MLS #5687744
Price1789900
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage7553
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in None

2915 Southers Circle

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1680000
Peaceful estate with all the amenities-an entertainer's delight! Enter through the iron gate & follow the drive through the trees to your new dream home. A must see with no detail forgotten! Gorgeous Chef's kitchen open to keeping room & breakfast area. Master on main. Finished basement w/full kitchen, custom walnut bar, theater room & more. Saltwater pool/spa with auto cover & outdoor fireplace. HUGE shop w/14' RV door & second 12' door, foam insulation, wired 220 w/gas lines run. Enjoy the convenience of the Chattahoochee Recreation Area out your back door.

Summary

MLS #5740199
Price1680000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage5385
Square Footage SourceAppraisal
StatusActive

Features

4 Bed / 4 Bath Home in The River Club

4870 Hanalei Hollow

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1599990
Home must be sold with a 18-24 month lease back. Fabulous Arthur Rutenberg Custom Home siutated in the River Valley at The River Club. This stunning home features an open floor plan for entertaining, gourmet chef's kitchen and owners suite on the main floor. Upstairs are 3 additional on suite bedrooms and a bonus room. Home has amazing view of 16th fairway and is walking distance to the club. This home is sold furnished.

Summary

MLS #5765916
Price1599990
Bedrooms4
Bathrooms (Full)4
Square Footage4333
Square Footage SourceBuilder
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in THE RIVER CLUB

4732 Blackwater Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1599900
Sitting beautifully on the 6th hole, this home has all the extensive trim/finishes any discriminating buyer will appreciate! Filled w natural light w features to include solid teak flooring, true hand crafted masonry frpl, planked walls in FR, waterworks faucets throughout, custom interior trim & built ins, calcutta gold marble counter tops, & custom hardware. Home is accented w hand baked brick, stone foundation & slate roof for welcoming appeal. Owner suite up w frpl & bath w waterworks tub, steam shower & bidet. Terr lvl w kitchen/bar & bath. 4 car garage too!

Summary

MLS #5566477
Price1599900
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage7800
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

7 Bed / 8 Bath Home in Belmore Estates

4994 Price Drive

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1599000
Stunning brick & stone estate on over 1 acre in private gated community. Resort style pool featuring waterfall,slide,hot tub, & fire pit plus covered porch w fireplace.4car garage, 8 fireplaces, 3 laundry rooms. Huge owner's suite w private balcony, spacious secondary bedrooms & lofts. Gourmet kitchen well-equipped w high-end appliances opens to spacious keeping room & breakfast room overlooking pool.Terrace level has 2nd kitchen/bar, theater, fitness, steam sauna, game room, den, & guest suite. MANY details and UPGRADES! Luxurious Lifestyle!

Summary

MLS #5765505
Price1599000
Bedrooms7
Bathrooms (Full)8
Square Footage11592
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

6 Bed / 6 Bath Home in The River Club

4505 Whitestone Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1550000
Tuscan columns and a wrought iron railing greet you at the covered porch of this brick & stone estate, inviting you to step inside. The gracious interior includes 12' ceilings, panelled study, sunny solarium with brick walls & soaring arched windows, a chef's dream kitchen w/ honed granite counter tops, soapstone apron sink, top of the line appliances. Tremendous entertaining space with covered outdoor living space including an outdoor dining porch. Guest suite on main lined by leaded glass windows w/ access to the covered porch.

Summary

MLS #5634131
Price1550000
Bedrooms6
Bathrooms (Full)6
Square Footage8187
Square Footage SourceAppraisal
StatusActive

Features

4 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

878 Big Horn Hollow

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1499999
Superb craftsmanship reflect in the River Club brick/stone home. Welcoming foyer feat inlaid floors & flanked by gentleman's Study w custom builtins & formal DR. Natural light fills the GR w fireplace & wet bar. Gourmet Kit feat dual Dishwashers, Subzero, Thermador 6 burner cooktop & dual convection ovens, large island & 2 pantries! Main level owner ste w sitting area & spa bath. Stained Canadian Maple hardwood flooring, 2 ensuite bdrms up & junior owner ste w jetted tub & dual vanities. Fin terr includes billiards/game room & gym w rubber flooring w full bath.

Summary

MLS #5758524
Price1499999
Bedrooms4
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage7133
Square Footage SourceAppraisal
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

932 Chattooga Trace

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1490000
Modern Day CHIC nestled in the ultra exclusive River Club. Every detail was carefully selected and quality crafted; Reclaimed wood beams & finishes, shiplap & birch walls, Luster Stone walls & ceilings, rich moldings. Master suite on main offers serenity & privacy. Open 2 story family room w/ stone fireplace & T&G ceiling adjacent to the modern renovated chef's kitchen. Enjoy alfresco dining on the covered porch or enjoy smores by the fire on the amazing renovated Trex deck that overlooks the pristine gardens. Full daylight terrace level awaits your finishes.

Summary

MLS #5760185
Price1490000
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage5780
Square Footage SourceAppraisal
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

5108 Coosa Court

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1475000
Located in a Private setting,home has been meticulously maintained paneled study, gourmet kitchen views to fireside vaulted keep rm,hardwood flooring throughout,master suite on main level w/spa like master bath, his/hers closets w/custom built-ins,second master suite upstairs,large secondary bedrooms w/private baths & great closet space,laundry on main & upstairs cover screen porch w/outdoor fireplace amazing backyard w/stone paver patio that views cascading waterfall & outdoor fire pit.Home backs up to nature preserve,prefect lot for pool walk out from your main floor

Summary

MLS #5765721
Price1475000
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage6603
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 4 Bath Home in The River Club

4971 Roaring Fork Pass

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1444800
Stunning J. Patrick O'Donnell brick & stone masterpiece brimming with character in The River Club. Situated on wide lot with preserved forest area, this 5BR, 4 and 2 half BA home is loaded with high-end features, including custom closet system in elegant master retreat on main. Chef's kitchen with pot filler, beverage refrigerator, warming drawer, farm sink, sliding barn door and Wolf range opens up to vaulted, beamed ceilings in family room and screened porch with fireplace. Perfect for entertaining! Full daylight lower level is framed, roughed in for lg in-law suite.

Summary

MLS #5706779
Price1444800
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)4
Square Footage5000
Square Footage SourceBuilder
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

5192 Boulder Bluff Way

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1425000
Fabulous build opportunity with builder Pat O'Donnell. Lot is nestled in quiet cul de sac close to The River Club amenity area. 5 bed/5.1 bath home. Master suite on main with spa like bath and his/her closet. Formal dining room/study, gourmet cook's kitchen over looking the great room and outside covered veranda with fireplace. Four additional bdrms upstairs all with private baths. Live in a community that meets expectations.

Summary

MLS #5741679
Price1425000
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage4571
Square Footage SourceBuilder
StatusActive

Features

5 Bed / 5 Bath Home in The River Club

902 Little Darby Lane

Suwanee, GA 30024

$1375000
RUSTIC ELEGANCE IN RIVER CLUB, CUSTOM BRICK & STONE HOME NESTLED IN A QUIET CULDESAC. RECENT RENOVATIONS INCLUDE INTERIOR & EXTERIOR PAINTING, NEW LIGHTING, REFINISHED HARDWOOD FLOORS. EXQUISITE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS, EXPOSED BEAMS, 4 FIREPLACES, PANELED GENTLEMEN'S STUDY & DINING RM, COZY 2-STORY FAMILY RM, SPECTACULAR CHEF'S KITCHEN, LARGE CENTER ISLAND, GORGEOUS STONE FIREPLACE IN KEEPING/FAMILY RM, COVERED SLATE PORCH, ELEGANT MASTER RETREAT, SITTING RM, MORNING BAR, LARGE SHOWER/SOAKING TUB, HIS/HERS LARGE CLOSETS, 2ND MASTER ON MAIN! 3 BEDROOMS SUITES UP & LOFT.

Summary

MLS #5761669
Price1375000
Bedrooms5
Bathrooms (Full)5
Square Footage6563
Square Footage SourceTax Record
StatusActive

Features

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Category Archives: sellers

Sign, sign, everywhere’s a sign…

Real estate listings need a sign.  They all have one, right… or at least most…  But there is one problem with the ubiquitous real estate sign… it is boring!

I don’t like “normal”

I like EXCEPTIONAL…

Real estate signs aren’t an exception.  I have long been tired of the same ol’ signs…  so I decided to do something about it.

I needed an EXCEPTIONAL sign.

So… I looked for a solution.  A sign that would stand out.  I wanted something that would give an interested buyer a reason to stop and actually take a look.

1033 Constitution Way Sign
1033 Constitution Way Sign
590 Baltimore Ave Sign
590 Baltimore Ave Sign

I think this is a pretty good solution.  The idea is to get a buyer out of the car… maybe even to take a picture of the sign. 

Of course, as with all marketing, it will be tweaked as time goes by to be even more effective. 

And as always, I’d love your feedback!

But Zillow says…

Well....if nobody wants to play Conkers with m...
Image by law_keven via Flickr

I know… most sellers at some point take a look at the ‘Zestimate’ that Zillow produces for their property.  And there is almost always one of two reactions…

  • Those people are on crack, my house is worth way more than that” (if the Zestimate is lower than expected)
  • Wow, I didn’t know it was worth THAT much… Cool” (if the Zestimate comes in higher than expected)

The bottom line is that if it is low, it must be wrong, and if it is high, then it must be right.  It is pretty rare for someone to see a low valuation and think it could be right, or see a high valuation and think it could be wrong…

But let me tell you a truism… the Zestimate is wrong.  Blanket statement.  It could be high.  It could be low.  It isn’t dead on.

Here are the current levels of accuracy for the Atlanta Statistical Area…

Within 5% of the true value, 25% of the time.
Within 10% of the true value, 45% of the time.
Within 20% of the true value, 66% of the time.
Median error, 11.6%.

This is lifted straight from Zillow’s accuracy.  For the Atlanta MSA, you are within 5% once out of 4 times… So, are you telling people that the just gave them a $400,000 valuation, and they have a 25% chance of the house being worth $380k – $420k?  And a 10% chance of it being worth either $$360k – $380k or $420k – $440k?  Or that there is a 10.5% chance of it being worth either $320k – $360k or $440k – $480k?  Or a 34% chance that it is worth less than $320k or more than $480k?

Maybe you will let them know that about half of the time your $400,000 valuation is worth $446,400 or $353,600… since the median error is 11.6%

The thing is that the Zestimate could rise or fall by a significant percentage and still be within the range of error..

So, the thing is that 75% of the time, Zestimates are off by more than 5%.

Now, I am not going to argue with Zillow’s national or regional data.  It is likely to be much closer than the data for a specific property.  The folks there argue (and I can’t refute them in any way) that Zestimates are as likely to be high as low and therefore cancel each other out and that for larger samples, they are quite accurate.

in fact, everyone that gives you an estimate of market value is doing exactly that… giving you an estimate of market value.  Market value can’t be determined until there is a buyer…  That was the previous post…

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My home is worth what?

Burholme estate in Burholme Park, Philadelphia
Image via Wikipedia

I can’t think of a question that I am asked more…

What is my home worth?

And there as many answers as there are times the question is asked.  There are a lot of sources for the information…

  • Appraisers
  • Real Estate Agents
  • Automated Valuation Models

And the results come in many flavors…

  • Appraisal
  • Comparative Market Analysis (CMA)
  • Broker Price Opinion (BPO)
  • Zestimates

There is one thing that they all share in common.  They are all opinions.  And they are all flawed.  That’s right… all flawed. They might hit the right value… but if they do, it purely a fortuitous accident.

Keep in mind, I work very hard on the accuracy of my CMAs.  I go over the data and try to stake out the trends as well as the differences between the subject and the comparable properties.

I know agents that do BPOs, and appraisers.  I have studied Zillow’s data that they use to get Zestimates.  In each case, they produce the best estimate of value that they can with the data available.

But they are all missing something…

What each opinion is missing is the buyer.  When it comes down to it, the person that is actually going to determine the market value of a property is going to be someone that may not have any training at all…

What is ironic is that the moment the closing is over and the sale is complete, the market value becomes a vaporous moving target again.

The market value is what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to sell for.  We can study the neighborhood values, floor plan, amenities and square footage.  We can crunch numbers and compare.  We can make spreadsheets and track trends.  But, a buyer gets to determine what the value is to them… and then see if the seller will go for it.

The point is…

It isn’t magic.  It is science… and an inexact science at that…  and a bit of art.  And pricing is actually a strategy.  The idea is to price it right to get it in front of the right potential buyers.  And that is the difference between a real estate agent, a BPO, an appraiser and an automated valuation model.  Only the real estate agent is working towards finding a willing buyer.

The other methods are important, and have a place…  And all should be in the same neighborhood.  Finally, make sure your real estate agent knows that pricing is a strategy, not a contest.

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Cheap Sex and Real Estate…

One Night Stand (musical)
Image via Wikipedia

I don’t know why, but I was reminded this morning about two very different people, one quote from both, and how cheap sex is like real estate success… for some.

Back when I first got into real erstate, a local “power agent” told me that the goal was to list as many properties as possible.  She said that I needed systems in place to spend as little time as practical for each listing, and to avoid spending money like the plague.  Seriously. She was all in favor of spending money, but not on marketing property.  Her quote was, “It is a numbers game, the more you list, the more you sell.”  She didn’t care if the houses were over-priced, in bad condition… whatever.  It was just a numbers game.

And then there is a ‘friend’ of mine from my early college days.  He had a pattern… and it worked on occasion.  At a party or a bar or a gathering, he would casually ask girls if the wanted a one night stand.  And every once in a while… he would find one that said, “yes.”  He told me that it worked out to about one in 50 or 75…  It is a numbers game, don’t waste time getting to know people… ask and move on,” he said.  I think it goes without saying that the girls that responded with a “yes” weren’t the girls that the rest of us were looking for…

In both case, these very different people weren’t looking out for the needs of their ‘target’.  They didn’t care about the other person.  An agent that takes an over-priced listing without reservations and then refuses to market it isn’t helping anyone… and someone that will have a fling with anyone that agrees to it obviously isn’t exactly responsible.

But their attitude was the same.  It’s a numbers game. The goals, needs and desires of the client/target aren’t important.  Don’t invest in the relationship.  Meet your personal and selfish needs and/or move on.

I lost touch with the ‘friend’ decades ago.  The agent is still listing property in the area…

Sorry, but I don’t think that is a way to effectively conduct business or personal life.

Is this a bit racy?  Absolutely, but I bet you get the point…

from GwinnettGarageGuy.com

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Can I tell my sellers it is a good idea to offer seller financing?

Banknotes from all around the World donated by...
Image via Wikipedia

Looking at the legislative landscape, I see a new danger on the horizon.  In addition to the existant dangers of financing a mortgage for a buyer such as their credit-worthiness and ability to repay, there is another risk which could soon be inserted into the pool…

Cram-Downs

If you aren’t already familiar with the term, take a moment to read the definition…  From the perspective of a lender, it is a scary scenario.  In effect, a bankruptcy judge could force down the balance of a loan based on their view of the value of the property.

Regardless of whether the seller is in the first or second position, they could face financial danger in this situation.  While helping out the buyer and hoping to make a little extra money on the sale of their home, they could find their investment principal… in effect, having the base value of the loan reduced.

Congress is looking at allowing cram-downs in residential mortgages again.  It is the second time this year that the subject has come up.  Currently they are saying that the new rules would only apply to loans before January, 2009, and that there would be other safe-guards in place to protect the investments of the lenders.  And remember, the lenders aren’t actually the banks and mortgage brokers.  The lenders are investors… and that means that they range from school teachers (through their pensions) to corporate portfolios… and anyone else that has money in the MBS (Mortgage Backed Security) market.

For a look at how cram-down provisions affect mortgages, one only needs to look as far as the commercial mortgage market and compare it to residential.  In effect, rates are higher, down payment requirements are higher, reserve amounts are higher and credit is tighter.  Before the lenders are willing to part with their money, they need to be more sure that they will be paid back, because a judge could reduce the value of their investment if the borrower has a problem.

And getting a higher interest rate for the increased risk might not help… the same judge could reduce the interest rate prior to lowering the principal balance.

So, I am telling my sellers that they need to be MUCH more aware of the risks, and that those risks could increase if Congress gets too populist.

from GwinnettGarageGuy.com

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